Characters can advance in "Lie Detection," but what about the deception that is the instigator?

Where would you put a "deception"-type skill? Or would you leave that entirely up to the ability of the GM and the PCs to try to role-play how good they are at deceiving?

I'm inclined to think a character might train it different ways:

Outwit: Intellect (use false proofs, data, slew of facts, etc. to befuddle the observer into agreement)

Bluff: Intuition (use your assessment of the situation, mentalism, social engineering, etc. to pretend at a truth they are likely (or want) to believe)

Smoothtalk: Luck (use your charms to sway them to your side)

I tend to blend the two, granting a bonus or penalty to the person's roleplay attempt at bluffing. I recognize that a lot of gamers just aren't that good at social things, so want to grant them the roll, but then award them if they've given a convincing argument/speech/etc.

Hiya.

I see a "Bluffing" skill as being more or less pointless. The GM "knows everything"; he knows if an NPC is lying...he also knows if a player character is lying. So, the "Lie Detection" skill is the only one really needed. If the GM figures one party or the other is particularly believable or suspicious, apply a modifier.

That said, I've never really liked the idea of skills that "take over" actual role-playing. I much prefer the story to develop naturally based on in-game assumptions and interactions. If I absolutely must use a randomiser for something like that, just use a base stat or outright arbitrary chance, like "Hmmm...well...roll and tell me if you get higher than a 9. (1) No? You know he's telling the truth // (2) Yes? You know he's lying".

^_^

Paul L. Ming